Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2016 19:35:22 GMT
Most start marshals are fat old blokes who do virtually nothing. The current malaise of restart after restart is peculiar to British speedway - Poland and even the GP only has occasional problems. I can't recall any issues in the WTC race-off or Final either. I liked the idea of the line behind the tapes where the front wheel spindle should sit - but it's made virtually no difference. The referees need to get their act together with consistency of starting procedures, and riders need to sit bloody still!
|
|
|
Post by faffeng on Sept 18, 2016 20:07:19 GMT
Start the two minute timer if they are not still at the tapes of 0.00 then exc them. It still gives them time to settle if they are out the pits as soon as the riders from previous heats are off track. Obviously the clock don't start till then
|
|
|
Post by BlueNose on Sept 18, 2016 20:19:16 GMT
Gardening should not be allowed,thought it was going to be banned this or last season.
|
|
|
Post by northwarwicksmike on Sept 18, 2016 20:22:03 GMT
I realise that it will be extra expenditure for all clubs, but only as a one-off; so it should be mandatory for every track to have a 2-minute digital clock, operated by the referee. Together with one monitor visible in the pits, and another at the starting gate.
|
|
|
Post by andout on Sept 19, 2016 12:55:50 GMT
I believe some countries do have the clock in the pits, cost cannot be that high as to be restrictive. This gardening crap and clutch fiddling at the start is really one of my "pet hates"....go to the line and bloody race as it used to be. What a time waster, totally boring and totally unnecessary. The two minute warning should come into effect immediately the last rider has left the track in the previous race. After a false start, unless there is a crash, riders should go immediately to the line. none of this going back to the pits, again a time waster, totally boring and totally unnecessary.
|
|
|
Post by andout on Sept 19, 2016 13:02:13 GMT
Start Marshall....
Interesting, this is actually in the rules but how often is it followed:
He must bring riders to the Start area in an orderly manner (determined by their gate position with inside being first) to the correct position etc etc etc
What do the riders do, come forward stay for a second or two then back up and start messing around again....really annoying!
|
|
|
Post by guitarart on Sept 19, 2016 18:32:05 GMT
I really don't mind the gardening.For me it adds tension and quite like the idea of the mind games the riders are trying to play with each other.
|
|
|
Post by AllThingsKings on Sept 19, 2016 19:02:44 GMT
Yes, get the start Marshall on it and he can report any problems to referee to make final decision.
|
|
|
Post by bosssuggs on Sept 19, 2016 22:01:16 GMT
Gardening is and always will be essential. Giving some Start Marshalls too much influence would be dangerous as they generally support the home side and could cause a lot of trouble. I recall the Marshall at Ipswich once grabbing Billy Hamill's mudguard to slow him away from the gate resulting in a mass brawl before the referee booted the Marshall out! The one at Stoke has been involved in several "heated exchanges" too always with visiting riders. And I also recall an unsavoury incident with Buxton's Marshall when he pushed Ash Morris!!
|
|
|
Post by andout on Sept 19, 2016 22:33:11 GMT
Gardening is and always will be essential. Giving some Start Marshalls too much influence would be dangerous as they generally support the home side and could cause a lot of trouble. I recall the Marshall at Ipswich once grabbing Billy Hamill's mudguard to slow him away from the gate resulting in a mass brawl before the referee booted the Marshall out! The one at Stoke has been involved in several "heated exchanges" too always with visiting riders. And I also recall an unsavoury incident with Buxton's Marshall when he pushed Ash Morris!! Really? "Gardening is and always will be essential.".....Please give the reason.....never was this way in the past, never is this way in several countries.... Though I do agree with the other elements of your post.
|
|
fetslickgater
Junior Rider
SIM SPEEDWAY MANAGER SIMULATION COORDINATOR
Posts: 20
|
Post by fetslickgater on Sept 21, 2016 6:10:20 GMT
I disagree with gardening and time wasting.
With all the time curfews I believe it would be good to set the 2 minutes as soon as the last rider from the previous heat leaves the track (will all referees deal with this in the same way) and any rider not at the tapes and ready when time expires on the two minutes would be sent back to the pits, not sure how many riders would be digging themselves in at the start if this were the rule, gardening is a more recent creation, back in the day, riders just got on with it, or we could have concrete start areas as they do in cycle speedway which can be designed to give the grid positions the necessary grip, and time saver and surely better for the riders with all the potholes on the start line how long before someone takes a nasty tumble as the race continues.
I agree not to give the starting marshalls any powers, the referee has a good view of everything going on and should act responsibly.
GET RID OF gardening and timewasting, after all we pay to be ENTERTAINED, most clubs are struggling with smaller fanbases, time to give US the fans a sport we can be proud of.
|
|
|
Post by mike2009 on Sept 21, 2016 9:44:59 GMT
There are some specific rules about timings between heats and the start of the two minutes. Once the two minutes has been put on, I don't really care what the riders do, but what seems to happen now is that as soon as the fourth rider makes it to the tapes, the clock gets turned off, and that's when the messing around starts. I'd keep the clock running and with 10 seconds to go, I'd call them to settle, put the green light on with 2-3 seconds to go, and on zero I'd raise the tapes. Anyone still gardening etc. just misses the gate!
|
|
al
Junior Rider
Posts: 40
|
Post by al on Sept 21, 2016 20:19:17 GMT
Have no problems with gardening at the start as this can lead to more excitement in vital races and can really build the excitement up.Staring Marshals should have no powers at all.
|
|
|
Post by ncc1701 on Sept 22, 2016 10:49:43 GMT
These are the relevant rules with my comments:
15.2.1 In normal circumstances the time from the finish of a heat to the start of the next shall not exceed 5 minutes (including the 2-minute time allowance).
Reduce the 5 minutes to 3 minutes: 1 minute gap before 2 minute warning applied. In inclement weather they manage to keep things moving.
15.2.2 If there is a Re-run, without disqualification, the 2-minute allowance shall be given immediately and no rider may leave the Track Circuit (i.e. must remain on the track).
No change. Sorry Matej Žagar!
15.2.3 If there is a Re-run, where a disqualification is ordered, the 2-minute allowance shall be given following a 1 minute delay.
No change.
15.2.4 Where there are valid reasons (e.g. track maintenance, interval or a re-run requiring repairs to motorcycles or track, then the Referee shall determine the period before the 2-minute allowance is given: This 2-minute time allowance is signalled by an audible siren and flashing amber lamp and if present (mandatory at a TV Meeting), be shown on a Countdown Clock.
No more than three minutes extra, before the 2 minutes goes on.
15.2.5 Riders must at the expiry of this time allowance, be on the track, under power, proceeding without stopping towards the Starting Gate.
15.2.6 Only if a rider is at the Starting Gate with sufficient time remaining of the 2-minute allowance, be permitted to prepare their Start area, provided they remain in full, personal control of their motorcycle, have the Cut-Out Lanyard attached, and with their motorcycle facing the direction of racing.
15.2.7 Riders must then come under the control of the Start Marshal and be ready to race.
15.2.8 The Start Marshal, shall bring the riders to the Starting Gate, in the order as determined by their gate position, ie. a, b, c then d, ensuring all parts of the motorcycle and rider’s limbs are within the marked Grid (nb. lines are neutral and do not form part of the Grid), with the front wheel spindle being directly above the 430mm gridline and when satisfied the riders are correctly positioned, that their motorcycles are stationary and the rear wheel is in contact with the track surface, s/he shall signal to the Referee to illuminate the Green Start light and walk well clear to the rear of all motorcycles.
These just need to be fully and consistently enforced. As others have said, a countdown clock ought to be mandatory to facilitate this, even if it is as rudimentary as a second start marshal holding up boards at thirty second intervals under the direction of the referee.
Start marshals have enough authority under the eye of the referee as it stands.
|
|
|
Post by bassman on Sept 22, 2016 18:12:56 GMT
It's up to the ref to get on top of this , if riders Pratt about to long at the gate flash the start lights, if they persist send them back15 , soon sort them out then
|
|